Bishop William Joensen and co-host Jeanne Thill welcome economist Dr. Catherine Pakaluk of The Catholic University of America to discuss her book Hannah’s Children: The Women Quietly Defying the Birth Dearth. Drawing on interviews with college-educated mothers of five or more children, Dr. Pakaluk explains why biblical faith shapes openness to life and why falling birth rates can’t be fixed by government policy alone. They also explore vocation versus career, the Catholic understanding of sacrifice, and her upcoming sequel about fathers. Why faith is the “why” behind larger families The biblical Hannah and children as blessing Why policy can discourage fertility but rarely encourage it Vocation, talents, and motherhood are not in conflict Coming soon: a book on dads
Falling birth rates are now a global phenomenon, yet about 5 percent of American women still choose to have five or more children. On this episode of Making It Personal, Bishop William Joensen and Jeanne Thill sit down with Dr. Catherine Ruth Pakaluk, economist, associate professor at The Catholic University of America, Executive Director of the James Cardinal Gibbons Institute for Human Ecology, and mother of eight. They discuss her acclaimed book Hannah’s Children: The Women Quietly Defying the Birth Dearth.
Opening reflections
Bishop Joensen marks the October feasts of St. John Henry Newman and St. Teresa of Avila (October 15). He reflects on Teresa’s teaching on perseverance in prayer, and how the same perseverance runs through the real-life stories of the mothers in Dr. Pakaluk’s book.
Stories as social science
Data has long shown that church-going Christians and observant Jews tend to have more children and stronger marriages. What’s been missing is the why. Dr. Pakaluk explains how her qualitative, interview-based research brought the inner lives of these families to an academic world that rarely meets them, and why it has been received so well.
Why “Hannah’s Children”?
The biblical Hannah (1 Samuel 1–2) prefigures Our Lady and saw her children as her greatest blessing. Dr. Pakaluk says the common thread among the women she interviewed wasn’t a number of children. It was a biblical faith that sees children as transcendently good and as an overflow of divine life. She describes two paths into that openness: conversion or reversion, and those who grew up with it. She also stresses that the book’s message includes couples who have not been blessed with children.
Policy, human ecology, and the willing heart
Dr. Pakaluk argues that fertility can be discouraged by policy but rarely encouraged by it. Examples range from China’s one-child policy to subtler barriers like unaffordable family housing. Governments can’t produce a willingness to do hard things, but faith can. The best thing the state can do is protect religious liberty and let churches flourish. Evangelization, she says as a scientist, is what moves the needle most.
Purpose, sacrifice, and vocation
The conversation turns to Kobe Bryant’s ethic of purpose overcoming sacrifice, and to a mother’s advice to her daughter that vocation matters more than career. Dr. Pakaluk explains why God-given talents and the gift of motherhood can never truly be in conflict. Bishop Joensen connects this to the paradox of the cross: in giving themselves, these women receive themselves back.
What’s next: the dads
Dr. Pakaluk has interviewed 53 fathers for a sequel to Hannah’s Children, now in progress and expected to come together heading into 2027.
Learn more at pakaluk.com
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